Ear Training: Two Note Volume One

FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS

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QFirst let me say that I really appreciate your approach to ear training. Over the past year, I have worked through all the one-note books and Key Note Recognition, and I have also work with the Fanatic's Guide. I have noticed a huge improvement in what I can hear, and play. I only wish I had stuck with a somewhat similar method I was introduced to when I studied with Randy Roos more than twenty years ago! I'm glad you've made it so easy to do this with your CDs.

I am now working on the Two-Note Fifths, and have some questions to make sure I am on the right track. Maybe explaning what I am doing is a good idea.

When I listen to the two notes, I can't identify both, so I try to pick out one (usually the lower note). I listen first, then sing C, make my guess, and listen the second time to see if I was right. I can usually hear one note, so I can figure out the second note without really "hearing" it, if you know what I mean, because I know the notes are a fifth apart.

I assume I should be trying to hear both notes, and that I will if I keep practicing. But I suppose the question is whether there are any problems with the way I am approaching it (like relying on interval distances with the one-note exercises).

Any advice you could offer would be greatly appreciated.
AYes I believe you have a problem in how you are approaching the 2 note ear training. You need first to hear what key the two notes are functioning in. This is the hardest part of the two note ear training. First off, make sure you really have the Key Note Recognition down. I mean 100% all the time. Second make sure you can do the 1st exercise in Fanatic's Guide again at 100% accuracy. It is extremely important to do well with these two exercises before attempting the two note ear training. Also make sure when doing the two note exercises that you first and foremost guess the key center. It will take some time before your mind is able to concentrate on what the key is rather than trying to shift it's attention to the actual notes. This process can sometimes take a long time to happen so keep at it. It can in some cases take a few years to get this so don't be surprised if it takes a few months or more. Don't try to pick out one note from the two notes. Once again just go for the key center. Over time your ear will begin to separate the two notes not based on an interval but based on how it hears each note within the key. Be patient with this because it can be very frustrating.
 
QI can do the Key Note Recognition 100%. I assume by the 1st exercise in Fanatic's Guide you mean One Note (i.e., pp. 13f). I need to work on that more to get it 100%.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "hearing what key the two notes are functioning in" or "guessing the key center." If it's 'D / A' (I'm talking about Vol 1), am I supposed to hear the key of D major (or minor), i.e., the major (or minor) key based on the lowest of the two notes? It seems to me that two notes can imply more than one key, so I must be missing something. Maybe if you gave me some examples of what keys I was supposed hear for different notes, say, 'F# / C#' or 'B / E' that might help me understand.
A The key that you will hear will depend on the octave that the notes are played in. For example if you hear an E and a B (the lower e being 1 octave and a 3rd above middle C) you might hear these notes still in the key of C (but maybe not, it's really a personal thing). But if you hear E and B (the two octaves and a minor sixth below middle c) almost everyone will hear these notes in the key of E. So when you are listening to the 2 note CD let's say you hear the first example I gave. You are singing a C. You sing C after the cadence, you hear the two notes. You only concentrate on the C you are singing. If the C still sounds like "Do," you know you are still in C and then you concentrate on each note of the two notes to see what degrees these notes are in C. If on the other hand you hear the second example the C you are singing most likely will sound like flat 6. Therefore you are in the key of E. You should then listen to each of the two note and decide how you are hearing them in the key of E.
 
QI've "finished" the One-Note Advanced CD and am working my way through the Key Note Recognition CD. But I was wondering what books are actually available for the 2-note series. I see only 6 volumes even though your description says that there will be 11 (corresponding with every interval). Also, I only see the beginning level. I have limited funds--is there really going to be much of a point in buying the intermediate and advanced CD's?
ASo far we just have the 6 Beginning Two Note volumes available. The learning curve between 1 note and 2 note is intense and 99% of students need to start at the beginning level of two note series. You of course should work through Key Note Recogition before even thinking about 2 note. Once you learn the 2 note concept you should find that you can either buy more volumes when they are available or make your own based on this technique. I hope this answers your question.
 
QI am studying your ear training books. I am working on "Ear Training: Two Note-Volume 1" and "Key Note Recognition" as well as "A Fanatic's Guide ..." Currently, I miss maybe 1 out of 24 on "Key Note Recognition" and 2 or 3 out of 28 on Two Note-Volume 1. Sometimes I get perfect scores. I need a bit more work on both. At what point should I move on to Volume 2?

In doing the exercises in A Fanatic's Guide ... I pre hear each note before singing it so as not to rely on vocal placement for the note. Sometimes this pre hearing takes more time than I would like. Certain note sequences cause a significant slow down such as FI - SI and TI - DI. Does this get faster with time? As the reading tempo increases, it seems that one would have to:
- have instantaneous access to this pre hearing or
- hear the next note while singing the current note or
- rely on vocal placement or
- know the sound of groups of notes (melodic shapes) on the staff while reading ahead.

When do you plan on releasing the next level of the Two Note series?

It is amazing to be able to listen to a song and recognize some of the chords and notes are just by hearing it! I could not do this prior to starting your eartraining materials
AI think it is time to move on to Volume 2 of the Ear Training Two Note Series. In reference to your problem with certain notes people usually find that pre-hearing the non-diatonic notes takes longer. This is because these notes are weaker in your memory. Pre-hearing is closely related to your creative musical abilities. Strengthening pre-hearing makes these internal creative skills an easier and more understandable outlet for the creative musician. Obviously pre-hearing has it's practical applications in sight singing and improvisation and helps to counteract the common problems of using vocal placement or vocal tension to help find or hear a note. Basically it's the best way to prove to yourself which notes you know and which you don't. You can then use this information to police yourself on which notes are weak and need more work.

At this point there are no immediate plans to release further volumes of the two or more note series. If you can do two note ear training you will find that you can do 11 note ear training with some more practice, it's all a matter of making tapes or CDs to work on and improve your speed. Currently I'm working on another system of ear training which employs your memory more in a real live instrumental situation. This ear training is exactly the same type as what you have been doing but is more of a direct application to your instrument and uses musical examples rather than the current system that is more "clinical" in it's approach. I'm glad to hear you have been transferring this ear training to real music. Although all students that work through this ear training do sooner or later apply it to real music with great success. The new method will speed up this transfer so students can use this ear training in a real live experience quicker.

I'm very proud of your progress and the amount of analytical thought you have put into this ear training method. I think you will find amazing things over the next couple of years happening with your aural perception. Keep working and keep in touch.
 
QI'm wondering how to apply your concepts of one note ear training to hearing chords? Are you training to hear the individual tones and then construct the chord in your mind? How does that work?
AWell this is all contained in the 2 note ear training books but a brief explanation: after much practice you will hear a chord identify which key you hear the chord in and then listen to each note of the chord to identify how those notes are functioning in a key.
 
QI have to tell you, I was flabbergasted when I read the instructions in Two Note. Hearing these modulations seems to employ a more reactive part of the mind than one note memorization. Obviously, I'm not to memorize the tension signature of two notes like I did one note. Although, it seems I should continue this in singing two notes, right? Instead, I am to learn the best way to react to what I am hearing. Is this correct?

I've been at it continually this week and am having great success with the 5ths. At least half of them modulate against my C freely, and the others are heard in C. Most of the high notes are also heard in C. I am going to order the next volume this week. Is there any work you can suggest to supplement these exercises with singing in the Fanatic's Guide, or more exercises like the octave displacement?
AGlad to hear your seeing the light. This ear training can be tricky and it's important for you to get a good hold on the 2 note method before branching out to other listening stuff. You can start another singing thing. I want you to get the book Single String Studies for Guitar Volume One. It may seem like a weird request but I use this book for guitarists and also for my ear training. After you get the book let me know and I'll give you an assignment. The most important thing that you can do now is stick with the 2 note CDs. You can work on as many of these as you like. The 5th are usually the easiest. Continue singing out of the Fanatic's guide. Try to break all this stuff up into many short sessions throughout the day and you will improve at the fastest rate.
 
QI have a question concerning the second exercise in the book, singing two notes. When I sing the two notes the first one is pre-heard quickly and sung. However, it takes more time to prehear the second note and the prehearing of the note is weaker. It's as if the previous note somehow interferes with my prehearing of the second note. I also find it a bigger problem with the major and minor seconds. I can sing those intervals quickly thinking intervalically. When I sing them quickly using your method I question if it's your method I used or the interval training sneaking in. How do I know I'm really prehearing the notes or the interval training is taking over?
AI understand your concern. I'll tell you how I hear it. I hear all 12 notes as this sort of matrix. If I want to sing the 2nd to the b3rd. I move up my tonal matrix and I prehear the 2nd to the b3 and then sing it with no thought of intervals. I know when I was back in the early period of my learning this method I would of had the same concerns you are expressing but overtime if you just keep trying to hear within the key it will get stronger and stronger until you don't think intervals or distance at all.
 
QI've got my key note recognition down at least 99%. Two Note Volume 1 (fifths), I've got it down to where there is only one occasional problem child. The question is I don't really decide (hear) which key these notes are functioning yet my answers are correct. What am I doing wrong?

Here is my procedure: I hear the cadence, two notes are played, ex D, A. So I think RE and up a fifth not hearing the second note but guessing based on theory. It doesn't sound like I'm not doing it right. I guess my question is how can I make myself hear it right? A fifth, in my mind, is a pretty clear statement of key, chord... it's a very strident sound, root bound by the bottom note. What I end up doing is identifying the bottom note with the one note technique and guessing the top. This sounds wrong according to your explanation in the two note book. Help!
AWell yes you are definitely doing the 2 note exercises wrong. I won't go into how many ways you are going to mess yourself up if you continue to use a combination of relative pitch and intervals to get the correct answer. I am unclear on how you could have possibly even started doing this in the first place. I think the book pretty clearly lays out the correct procedure. Why you are not following it is very puzzling to me. The short answer to your question is to start using the approach in the book and not the approach you are using. This would be done by controlling your mind, which I'm sure you can do. If that doesn't work then I think you should either get all the 2 note books and make a tape/CD with random examples compiled from these CDs or make your own tape/CD with random examples. By not having a consistent interval used on the CD this will hopefully not allow you to cheat in that for instance you know it's some sort of 5th etc...

One of the most important things to move to the next level is to be able to modulate. The procedure used with the 2 notes teaches you this, which of course is very similar to what happens with the Key Note Recognition book. I can't stress more the importance of doing this correctly. If you don't, you will be stuck where you are forever.
 
QI was wondering when doing Two Note ear training if you don't hear clearly the key should you guess the key? If you can't guess the key should you not even bother trying the notes? I got to the point where I hear the obvious keys but the rest of them forget it! Two Note is a killer. It seems that when it's mastered the ear will improve exponentially!!!
AIf you don't hear the key clearly you should just guess. This is much better than starting to develop some other system that will slow you down over the long run. You could still try to get the two notes even if you're not sure of the key. Who knows you might be correct about the key so why not try. I would keep reviewing the Key Note Recognition book. The examples in that book have to be 100% correct at all times so keep reviewing. Once you get the modulation part of the 2 note exercises you will find that you are really able to do any number of notes, it's just how quickly you can do it. Also make sure you are doing sight reading from the Fanatic's Guide or LINES, that will help your progress.

Overall be patient and consistent with you ear training work it will pay off over time.
 
QAre there books that train you to hear chord progressions?
AMy ear training method prepares you step by step to hear more and more complicated aural situations. You can't learn to hear chord progressions before you can hear one note, two note, modulations etc. You have to build up to hear multiple notes that either modulate or don't. If you feel this makes sense to you I would start with Ear Training One Note Complete and Fanatics Guide. Once you have finished those books write back and I'll give you the next group of books and exercises to do. You can also check the many FAQs and additional suggested materials posted on the muse-eek.com website for more information.
 
QIn listening to the Vol 1 Two Note CD I hear the C note as the minor second and identify the two notes played as B, F# but the answer is E, B. I go back and listen to the track again and because the most obvious way the C is heard is b6 I hear it that way, kind of; the E, B pair is my problem child. I think what happens is that power of suggestion changes the way I heard the C and erases my hearing of the E, B pair in the key of B. Does this clear up as one's ear becomes more developed with the two note method? Should one stay in Volume 1 until this clears up?
AEveryone has their problem combinations. They usually go away over time. Sometimes you can have a couple that will linger for years but hopefully you won't be one of those. Keep doing the singing and reviewing the one note. Most of the time these problem combinations clear up over time.
 
QI recently purchased the one note method. It is an interesting method and I look forward to improving my hearing. It seems your ear training technique goes on to cover 2 notes, 3 notes etc but I wondered why you don't teach ear training for chords?

Is being able to hear individual notes the same skill required to identify chords? For example, if I can hear and identify the A note in the key of C, does it necessarily follow that I will also be able to identify the A chord in the same key?

I am keen to learn how to play totally by ear and I want to train my ear to be able to hear and identify chords so I know which chord to harmonize the vocals with.
AHearing chords is partly being able to hear one note and partly being able to modulate because sometimes chord progressions modulate. To give you a simple example of how to use the one note ear training in a chord situation where there is no modulation let's say you have the chord C major. So when you hear the C, E and G it will sound like the root, 3rd and 5th. Let's say the next chord is A minor, which then returns fairly quickly to C major (if we stay too long on A minor we might modulate). So the notes of the A minor chord A, C, and E will sound like the 6th, root and 3rd. Getting to the point that you can hear this way will require you to work completely through the Beginning, Intermediate and Advanced CD from the One Note Method. It will also require you to work through Key Note Recognition and get a good handle on the 2 note books along with Fanatic's Guide which will help you improve quickly. Sometimes students are able to apply the skills learned with the one note method directly to chords, sometimes it takes longer for the skills they learn with the one note method to penetrate their multiple note abilities. To be able to play chords on the spot to a singer singing notes obviously requires a very quick access to knowing what notes you are hearing and transferring that information through your music theory skills to decide on what chord would be appropriate. I would also recommend you improve your music theory skills to help you in this process. I would recommend Music Theory Workbook for All Instruments which will give you exercises to improve instant recognition of what notes are in what chords.
 
QI have a couple of questions about ear training. I am a man in my thirties and I have started to play keyboards and some guitar. I already can play melodies by ear, but I have difficulties in chord hearing on music (I do know how to read notes so this is not a bad problem). I already have bought One Note Complete, I am just waiting for the mail to deliver it.

So there are my questions: (I don't want to sing). Is Fanatics Guide necessary when training ear? Is it possible to get just Key Note recognition and one of the two note books? I have a computer with midi so I can do more training CDs myself when I know how to do it.
AIt is possible to do the ear training without the Fanatic's Guide. I think you will be making the process much harder for yourself and you won't improve as quickly. I also think it will effect how soon you can transfer the exercises into real music application. You would definitely want to get Key Note Recognition and at least one two-note book so that you understand the concepts presented in those books. I would also recommend you check out amazon.co.uk in a few weeks, they will have all these titles available so that might save you some shipping costs. Just one final note. I think your statement that - I don't want to sing - is not looking out for your own best interest in improving your musicianship.
 
QWell I just got off a Christmas gig and I did something I never did before. A couple of people started to sing some carols (during my break) a cappella and I got up, played the c on the piano, and without getting out my music I started to play with them by ear. And I have to say I did pretty well. Got all the keys right and by the second go round I was playing the melody and most of the changes with them. They were happy and I was thrilled (I didn't let on, though). For the first time I really felt like a musician, not just a pretty good piano player, and I owe it all to you. Thank you so much, this was a great Christmas present.

Been writing you a long letter about teaching... as you know I work with high school dropouts in home study programs and I would love your expert opinion on incorporating the use of repetition in forming and retrieving memory in other subjects outside of music. Kandel's book has opened a new 'gestalt' for me to explore in the hope of improving my teaching techniques and my understanding of the learning process. I'd like to share these revelations with you and also discuss some of the controversies apparent in this field (i.e. the ongoing battle between the pre-synaptic and post-synaptic schools and the influence of brain waves (Pergonine) and brain locale on ease of formation of memory) in light of your experience with students who have a hard time sticking to it.

I do have a couple questions about 2 note and modulation in general.

First, when working with sixths and sevenths in 2 note the need to hear each scale degree in the diad becomes vital as I tackle varying modulations with the same diad. This has been difficult and often I must sing the notes separately before humming the C (or playing the c on the piano if not sure) to find the right answer i.e. b to g# sometimes changes the c to b6... b2 (which I still don't always recognize) or 3. Once I've sung the notes separately it becomes easier to hear the scale degrees of the diad (i.e. 5 and 3, 1 and 6, or b3 and 1). It seems to be working as the need to sing the notes eventually disappears. The problem with doing this is that sometimes I use resolution tendencies or sing tonic to check if I'm right. It's almost a knee jerk reaction and I know this is wrong. Can you offer another technique to hear the diad in terms of its members? By the way, I hardly ever hear the interval any more, which is great!

Second, I've been working with Lines and singing and double line exercises. I learn each single line exercise until I can do it without drone at half note = 80 and then proceed to 2 note slowly without drone until I can get it at quarter = 80. I leave the 3 note alone at this point until hear modulations better. I'm also singing and learning one bass line a week from the blues bass book. I always start by transcribing them and then sing them the first day of the week. My question concerns the solfege used when I hear brief tonal shifts i.e. to the subdominant or other secondary dominant shifts. For example, in the first blues bass exercise in the key of c major, the move to f# e d# e in m. 4 causes my ear to hear the d# as b7 and the e as 7 and the f in m. 5 as 1. So from m. 3 I sing - do te do sol / fi mi te ti / do (f) te la sol / fa mi fa fi /which sounds like ti going to c. Is this the idea? Obviously, this is not a true modulation in the academic sense, but I assume that, especially at slower tempos, this is a perfectly viable way of hearing in your method. Am I right? Also do you have any comments on my approach with Lines and Blues Lines exercises? I am also patiently wading through page one of single line studies in every key... almost done... it's taken 3 months though. Should I speed this assignment up at the expense of lines or keep it up. By the way, I am not doing Fanatic's exercises at this time because there is no modulation and I want to focus on modulating at this point.

Third, when I play the appropriate chord to accompany my singing (to the horror of my mom the singer) the shifts in tonality become more apparent and easier to identify. Is this a good idea? I suspect not but am interested to hear why not.

OK... I'm pooped (as I'm sure you are also). This is a rough time of year for musicians and coupled with family and shopping and letter writing to you I think I am becoming Steve Scrooge.
AI'm glad you're getting something out of the Kandel book. I'm always interested in your perceptions and comments about memory and learning.

With the 2 note exercise I would first always do the exercise as laid out in the book. After you have done that then singing the two notes and/or repetitive listening to one example is fine to help you hear various aspects of the diad. I of course don't recommend using resolution tendencies. Overall most students find that there is a group of diads that cause them problems. Sometimes through repetitive work these diads become clear, other times you just need to move on to 3 note ear training. In a way 2 note ear training is harder than 3 note because 3 note outlines a key center in most cases better than 2 notes do. So when you hear B and G#, if you do 3 note exercises where the notes are B, E and G#, you most likely hear this in E major. So later when you go back and hear B and G# your ear will more easily hear the B and G# in E major. Overall I'd say when you are getting all but 5 to 10 Two note examples it's time to move on to the 3 note exercise.

Your work with the LINES book sounds fine. Basically you just follow any modulation you hear. It may seem weird at times but overall you are trying to learn to follow your ear. Of course when the tempo is slow you will have many more modulations than when the tempo is quicker.

I'd just keep plugging away at the Single String Studies singing exercise. I'd spend a few weeks on each page maybe a key a day and then move on. You will probably sing through this book a few times so just do your best and then move on. I'll want you to go through the book once with a drone and then once without a drone. Tough stuff but it will do wonders for your ears. Wasn't sure what you were asking with your last question so please clarify.
 
QHow should I work at hearing the tetrad permutations in the theory help file? I tell you I'm pretty good at recognizing chord qualities, but, like intervals, their pretty useless on the band stand!! Since I've worked with 2 note, I realize I need to hear these qualities as a function of scale degree tension. I've been working on half diminished permutations and began singing them as if they are ii function... 2, 4, b6, 1, the most common usage of half diminished quality. I do this as I sing along with my finger exercises based on permutations. Is this a good workout to help me learn chords until I can use 4 note technique. I also realized that because we construct chords on an interval basis, the tradition of ear training in most schools reflects this way of teaching theory... and unfortunately this tradition has missed the true 'gestalt' of melodic perception... scale degree tension... maybe the way theory is taught should also be changed... any way more about this in my big letter.

Which brings us to two note. Getting ready to make tapes for tritone, m2, m6, etc. Also would like them at an intermediate level. Maybe with a single playing of interval rather than two. Any suggestions as to tempo of cadence and interval articulation? Any other suggestions?

String pages are still proceeding slowly. Really want to work the tempo up and want to finish Lines, One Note, Two Note, before I do a key a day of string exercises. I really think Lines is great and a good stepping stone to the string transpositions.

Using Key Note technique on 'Bass Lines.' It was a little tricky at first, especially when I play the c in the middle of the line, but I'm starting to get it with maj. and min. blues lines. I can't tell you how helpful this has been in my work. And the look of admiration I get when I get a key right away and start playing the right stuff is a joy!!! I still have a tough time with a couple keys though, hoping this bass exercise will help.

Finally, I think its possible to hear root movement quickly. I've begun to sing root movements to help me hear progressions. Because harmonic rhythm moves relatively slowly, I really think I can hear root movement automatically if I can isolate the down beat of each measure. My automatic hearing range is about 40-50 mm. Anything that slow, I hear it like someone is talking to me... its great.... So I'm hoping this skill, coupled with pretty good sense of dom., sub dom., supertonic, and supermediant functions and a beginning sense of common modulation formula will make it possible to sit down with someone find the key and play along with the progressions with a high degree of accuracy. So, do think it is possible to isolate down beats from the bass line?
AI fixed the Music Theory File so it should be correct now. Sorry for the problem, just so many things going on at once.

You are correct that the way Music Theory is taught should definitely be changed to reflect how we hear sound.

For the 4 note permutations I would sing through the 24 possibilities in all keys using the Blues Progression assignment in the Fanatic's Guide. A very large assignment, but this is what I did and it made all the difference in the world. Not only do you build up a very fast theory recognition but your ears benefit immensely. I would do this with the 13 basic chord types:

Major 7th
Minor 7th
Dominant 7th
Minor 7th b5
Dominant 7th sus 4 (1,4,5,b7)
Minor Major Seventh
Diminished 7th
Major 7th #5
Major 7th #11 (1,3,#4,7)
Dominant 7th #5 (1,3#5,b7)
Dominant 7th b5 (1,3,b5,b7)
Major 6th
Minor 6th

This is at least a years worth of singing but it will do wonders.

To work on these chords in musical context I would sing through standards arpeggiating the chords for each measure. I would start this with a key drone note and choose non-modulating tunes first. Over time you want to work into modulating tunes and not having a drone. I did multiple tunes this way working through the progression and singing each of the 24 permutations or each chord. (i.e. take ABDC and singing it through an entire piece of music arpeggiating the chords). The book LINES will help you as a stepping stone to this assignment. Your minor 7th b5 exercises are very similar to the above stated technique and you certainly can isolate certain chords over a drone to start to hear, for instance, a ii-7b5 within the key.

Making additional 2 note tapes can be done in multiple ways:

1. You could substitute the I IV V with a I V I.
2. You should definitely work up to just playing the two note combination once.
3. You can work up to just playing the cadence very quickly.
4. You should also make very large and small distances between the two notes

Overall use the pitch class sets from Joseph N. Strauss's Introduction of Post Tonal Theory to make sure you are doing all possible multiple note possibilities. As you can guess this gets to be a lot of permutations. Sounds like your on track with everything else you mentioned. Keep up the good work.
 
I recently started Fanatic's Two Note Vol 3 and was surprised that I was able to identify about 60% right away. The skill I gained on Vol 1&2 transferred immediately. I was very pleased! For example when I heard a two note pair played and heard it as 5 and 3 of the key. This was a eureka moment! Right now I hear (correct answers) them about 60% 5,3 and a 40% 1,6. There are problems with some of the pairs but the accuracy is getting better because I have just kept up the fanatic's singing exercises like you advised. One major side benefit is that I'm now listening to a wider variety of music than ever before and enjoying it more. I was listening to something on the classical music station today that sounded like some kind of atonal thing and was hearing scale degrees in the areas of the piece that seemed to have a root. Just wanted to let you know that your books have been a great blessing to me. I have always wanted to have good ears and have had great success so far for with your method.
 
QI've been listening to Two Note Volume 1, 5ths, and I essentially hear modulations on every 5th, even those that should theoretically be part of usable diatonic chords in the key of C, like D/A, A/E, F/C, even G/D; that is, I hear the notes of the 5th as scale degrees one and five and then the C I'm singing as a note in that key (b7, b3, 5, 4, respectively). (In the obviously non-diatonic 5ths I also always hear them as 1 and 5 of a new key - is this usual? This means I can tell which 5th it is without having to hear the individual notes - though with concentration I can hear these too - for if C sounds like a 3rd then I know it's G#/D#, a #4, it's F#/C#, etc.) I'm just wondering if this is normal, or if it happens because of a listening problem. As a side note, it seems to me sometimes that I can hear these notes either way- that is if I concentrate on singing the C I hear a modulation, but if I don't I can hear the notes in the key of C.
AYep that all sounds usual for someone just getting started with Two Note ear training. Sounds like you might be ready soon to move to some of the other volumes. Remember that modulations don't have to be the same every day. One day you might hear a 5th in one key and the next day hear the same 5th in another key. This is normal and quite cool if you think about how that applies to improvising and composition.
 
QI've been working on ear training for almost 8 months now, it seems to be coming along slowly. I've completed One Note Advanced, get very close to 100% each time, and have spent the last three months working on key note recognition, I get close to 100% correct, but I'm not hearing the minor keys totally correct just yet. I often hear their relative majors (C sounds like 4 on E min), but I can always identify it as E minor, even though it doesn't sound like the flat 6 yet (although it's starting to).

I've been working with the first four, three note exercises from Fanatic's Guide, I've gone through starting the exercises on 1, 3, 5, 7, 2, and now I'm on 4. I also try singing a tone (relative) over the different keys, usually one tone a week. I'm starting to pre-hear some of the notes while I'm doing the 3 note exercises, usually the diatonic ones. I still struggle pre-hearing the one note over the different keys, especially the non-diatonic ones.

It seems that my voice isn't quite connecting with my internal ear, sometimes when I can pre-hear a note, it is hard to sing it correctly without singing a random note first to get my bearings (if that makes sense). Lots of times my voice will default to the root even if I can hear the note I want in my head. Also, trying to sing a line independently of what I'm hearing is very difficult (harmonies). So, my questions are:

1. Should I start on Two Note or keep working on Key Note Recognition until the minor tones sound like the major tones?

2. Do I continue with the 3 note exercises, starting on a new note as I progress, eventually having started on all 12 notes in the key of C? After that do I move on to the next 4 exercises staring on 1?

3. Would you recommend Lines Volume One, it sounds like it will help with singing harmonies independently and connecting my voice to my ear?

4. Am I missing anything?
ASounds like you have been doing quite well and your problems are normal so you should be proud of yourself that you have gotten this far.

You can start the Two Note but be prepared it could take some time.

I think you should start working on the Blues Progression listed under the 2 note exercise. You should start by singing m7ths through the progression. If this doesn't make sense let me know and I'll explain further.

I wouldn't recommend LINES right now but I would recommend getting it.

Single String Studies for Guitar Volume One. This is a guitar book but I often use it to help students gain a better key retention ability. Let me know when you have it and I'll give you an assignment.
 
QWell after ten months of this I think it is finally starting to happen! I have had about half a dozen sessions where I hit above 80%. I am not consistent though and I continue to have problems confusing fifths. When you hear the same note but different octave do they register as similar and/or related notes?
AYour question is a little vague. In one note ear training the same note in different octaves will eventually sound the same. In 2 note ear training the octave that a note is in can effect the perceived key of the 2 note group.
 
QI am getting a little confused. As this has become a long term project requiring a lot of time I was wondering if you could clear one thing up for me. At the outset I had two objectives that I hoped your courses could fullfill.

1. Being able to recognize any note sounding within a specific key.  To that end your One Note course is obviously the firs step.

2. To be able to hear a modulation to a new key. I am not sure if the two, three etc note courses actully prepare one for this and if so what is the theory behind it. Typically its when a new tritone sounds that one modulates to a new key. I don't see what a different octave has to do with a percieved key in the two note course. Clearly I must be missing a key point (pun not intended).

I am very close to getting the one note program down and am quite happy with the results. Its been a lot of work but there is no question that your course is the only one with the correct approach.
ALearning modulation is a multi-stepped process. You will need to get through Key Note Recognition and the 2 note books before you will have much accuracy when modulating. I don't think explaining how you will modulate will help you at this point. I think it will become obvious as you progress that there are many ways that note(s) can make you modulate. You have mentioned a dominant to tonic relationship as one way. The octave that a note is in can also effect a modulation. For instance if you are in C major and someone plays the lowest Eb on the piano for 5 seconds this will have much more of a tendency to make you modulate than playing the highest Eb on the piano for 5 seconds. You also don't have to have a tritone existing to cause a modulation. Just going to another chord or group of notes and staying there for awhile and you will commonly make a modulate. Best thing for you to do right now is concentrate on getting through the books and then we will have plenty of time to discuss musical scenarios.
 
QI have been singing lots of transcriptions and tunes as suggested. Today I was singing a Donna Lee exercise I found. I tried singing without the drone and found I did quite well. I was really surprised as my ear modulated in the F minor section. So, how do I sing that? Does F become DO? Any other thoughts on how to sing without a key drone?

Two note progress is really taking off. I get 90%-plus correct on CD's 1-6. I have edited all of the these files to make them faster, but they still play the notes twice. Maybe 50% of the time I have the correct answer before the notes are played again..

You mentioned below that you might be able to get the rest of the two note exercises from another student. Any progress on that? Or should I hunker down and be prepared to make them myself? I would be willing to offer my edited tracks from CD's 1-6 for someone who needed them. Or maybe you would trade them for a credit for some muse-eek books?
AThat's great that you are beginning to hear the modulations. When you do modulate you do change solfeggio syllables so if you modulate to F. F will become DO. There is really no differences when singing without a drone. The drone just is a intermediate stage to strengthen your ability to hear the notes in a key center. The more you sing without a drone the more you with strengthen your key retention. I would suggest you continue to pick tunes from the real book and sing them without a drone. I would also suggest you start looking a more challenging music to expand you abilities. Contemporary Classical music might a good place to start for singing examples. Maybe Schoenberg's 5 piano pieces Op 23. Pick a line from the piano part and sing it and follow your modulations. It will take you on a journey!

I think you should start making some of the harder 2 note examples such as major 7th, 1/2 steps and b9. I think you should also start to make 3 note examples to listen to.

Because most students don't get as far as you have it's really doesn't make much sense to offer your edited tracks to other students but thanks for the offer.
 
QRegarding the two note (or more) listening exercises - is there a point where many of the combinations will be heard in the key of C?

Seems to me that any combination of notes can be heard in the key of C given the right context. Does the two note listening process eventually lead to that as the exercises are sped up?
AYes anything can be heard in any key. It's all a matter of context and your key retention abilities. I would say that the 2 note exercises lead to that but the overall idea is to be able to follow how you hear and prepared for many possibilities depending on context.

To make 3 note CDs there are only 12 possible 3 note combinations in music.

012, C,C#,D
013, C, C#, D#
014, C, C#, E etc....
015,
016,
024,
025,
026,
027,
036,
037,
048

The above is integer notation used in Post-Tonal-Theory

Remember with the above list to do:

Retrograde:
Normal = 012, C,C#,D Retrograde=C, B, Bb

All octave transpositions.

That will keep ya busy for awhile :)

Also don't try to predetermine what a combination of notes will sound like. Always play a combination, keep an open mind and then see how you hear it.
 
QI am finding your ear training method to be extremely helpful and productive, but I am wondering how much it will help me to hear harmonies as it seems that much of it is melody and single-line focused. After enough time and study, will it enable me to identify harmonies as well? I am wondering if you ever advise your students to take a similar approach to learning harmony, perhaps finding a CD that uses several progressions in different keys and inversions and encourages the student to identify them by listening to their sound, rather than identifying bass notes, etc. Do you recommend any additional studies for those of us who want to develop a better ear for harmony, or will this come after enough study of your method.
AThe ear training method you are doing is working towards hearing both melody and harmony. Remember harmony can be thought of as just a bunch of melodies played at the same time. When you get to 2 note ear training this will begin the process of hearing multiple notes at once. See:

http://www.muse-eek.com/books/ET%202-note-vol%201/lower.html

You would need to work on Key Note Recognition be you move on from One Note Ear Training:

http://www.muse-eek.com/books/keynote_recognition/lower.html

Sound like it would be a good idea to read through the FAQs for all these books so that you understand the method better and realize what is involved. Here are the links:

http://www.muse-eek.com/books/ET_1_note_complete/eartrngfaq.html

http://www.muse-eek.com/books/fanaticsguide/fanaticsfaq.html

http://www.muse-eek.com/books/keynote_recognition/eartrngfaq.html

http://www.muse-eek.com/books/ET%202-note-vol%201/ET2Nvol1faq.html

I will be giving you additional studies once you have completed these books so for now just buckle down and listen and sing.
 
QI have a question about memories. I remember reading one of your answers to another question a while back where you touched on this subject, but I can't seem to find it anymore. (Your FAQ section is getting quite large!)

Are one's previous musical memories translated (for lack of a better word) into this new way of hearing as one becomes more proficient? For instance, would I be able to hear the scale degrees of, say ... some melody from my childhood, even though I would not have listened to it since changing the way I hear? I'm trying to be specific; I realize that this is a broad topic.

I'm concerned about my ability to come up with ideas by ear with this method. I have no doubt that I will become much better at comprehending what I physically hear and hearing scale degrees that I read on paper or think of in my head. However, I wonder how my spontaneous, creative ability will be aided.

Let me put it this way. When I was little, I used to go to the piano and just start coming up with little songs by ear with no regard to theory. These songs were, necessarily, just little bits and pieces of songs from my memories put into a blender and spewed back out wherever my brain thought they fit. I imagine that this is true at all times when coming up with things by ear. Of course, hardly anyone composes music or improvises in a strictly analytical mindset; we all draw from inspiration and feel it out at least part of the time. I guess my question is this: how is this aspect of musicianship affected by changing the way I hear? Will I be able to use this method to identify things just popping into my head from a lifetime of musical memories?
AIf you either sung a melody or heard a melody from your youth you would have to listen to it with your new ear training ability in the same way as you would any new melody you might hear. You ear/mind doesn't automatically know something. For an analogy, if you learned algebra you don't automatically know the answers to algebraic equations unless you do the math.

On the other hand once you can hear and you start listening to and processing melodies you will find they are easy to remember because you now have a system of organization of pitch via the contextual ear training.

Your creative ability will be revolutionized with this ear training. Once your mind has a firm grip on what notes sound like it will have a much greater ability to to put together melodies of higher complexity. But remember these things don't just magically happen you have to work with your creativity like it's a muscle to develop it. A good book to read on this is "Matisse on Art"

AUTHOR Matisse, Henri, 1869-1954
TITLE: Matisse on art / [edited and with an introduction by] Jack D.Flam.
EDITION: 2nd ed.
PUBLISHED: Oxford [England] : Phaidon, 1978.

Once your ability with the ear training improves you will be able to identify things just popping into your head from a lifetime of musical memories. Once again you need a conscious effort to do this it doesn't happen automatically until you are many years down the road and you just "hear" contextually as a natural event in your musical life. Once you get there you will still run into complex situations where it takes your ear time to grow into the situation. Take the improvisations I do over my 12 tone music or the music I record with the group Spooky Actions. see:

http://www.muse-eek.com/record/record.html

These note combinations and harmonies can take time to settle in your mind because of their complexity. I would also recommend you read Eric Kandel's book on memory so you start to understand what is going on up stairs in your mind.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0805073450/qid=1138891810/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/002-2290163-0362448?v=glance&s=books
 
QI've been getting 90% to 100% right on the Two Note Cd. You told me to write you back for more things to work on. I just ordered the next two Two Note Books and should be getting them in the next week.
AWe will be singing jazz standards out of the real book. Let me know if you have the book.
 
QYes, I have a copy of the Real Book. Singing standards sounds like fun.
ASo I want you to sing Donna Lee from the Real Book over a Ab drone with solfeggio syllables. Try to get this around 80 bpm for a quarter note. Also I want you to get the book Single String Studies for Guitar Volume One and sing the first page in all keys with solfeggio with a drone for each key center. Let me know if you have any questions and write me back when you have completed the work.